Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] On this episode of Cox Talking Gamecocks, Mark Kingston is fired. And I talk about who could potentially be the next coach at South Carolina and what qualities that next person has to have. Okay, here we go.
[00:00:57] Okay. Welcome to episode 248 of Cox Talking Gamecocks. I am your host, Tim Cox, where I will keep every episode from 1801 to 2001. And, yeah, we are in offseason mode. Game Cox. We are fully in offseason mode. But what an absolute last week it has been. And y'all know what I'm already talking about here. I mean, I end the last episode, say to myself, okay, you only got the summer months. Gonna have to plan out what we're gonna talk about here. Football here, this, that, whatever.
[00:01:36] Then news breaks and, oh, my gosh, we have stuff to talk about for days. I'm gonna jump into everything going on in the baseball program this episode, fully. There's not much else going on in Gamecock country. And, yeah, you know what? Let's just jump right into it here. But first, as per off season tradition here, going to start things off with my handy dandy Gamecock calendar here. It's a piece of trivia today for y'all. Let's see what you got. Fittingly enough, this is actually about baseball, so it's on theme. It knew it was written in the stars, but here's the piece of trivia. Can you name the USC shortstop who was taken with the 10th overall pick in the MLB draft by the Texas Rangers in 2002? It was the earliest a Gamecock baseball player was chosen.
[00:02:35] Do you know it?
[00:02:37] Answer, Drew Meyer. Shout out Drew Meyer. Earliest gamecocks taken off top of my head. I don't know if that's. If that's been broken.
[00:02:48] Not too sure. But 2002, you know, I may be on the old side, maybe a little past my prime here, but not quite that old. Where 2002, I was able to keep track of MLB draft picks and things of that nature, but nonetheless. Shout out Drew Myers. Shout out Gamecock baseball. And what a transition that is, because the big news from this week, massive, massive news. Maybe not the most surprising, but nonetheless big news is that Mark Kingston has been fired as the baseball coach at South Carolina after seven seasons at the helm. And, you know, you could practically hear the sigh of relief from Gamecock Nation when that news broke. And, I mean, even really just saying it here behind the microphone, it just.
[00:03:43] You don't want to, you know, stomp on a man's grave here. You don't want to say it feels good, but, I mean, it was a lot of tension building. Right. You know, you knew it was trending this way sooner or later. It didn't seem like there was a miracle turnaround in his tenure anytime soon. And with the way the end of the regular season ended, you really thought that it was going to take a miracle run in the postseason to save his job. That did not happen. It was a great run in the SEC tournament, but when it mattered the most, when the season was on the line, guy showed up flat, which unfortunately was a little bit of a pattern here. And yeah, with his firing, it comes an end of a very interesting, polarizing, tumultuous, and ultimately underwhelming tenure and era for Gamecock baseball. And I think underwhelming is probably the word that sums up the Kingston era well, where you just kind of got let down time and again. There wasn't this incredible season that you got hot, you made it to Omaha. There wasn't this run that you went on a couple of years, you're just underwhelmed. You know, you're like, yeah, it was fine, you know, Kingston leaves with an overall record of 217 and 155, but with an SEC record of 83 and 96, so a losing record in conference.
[00:05:20] Most notably, his teams never made it to Omaha. They only went to supers twice, while also missing the postseason entirely. Twice in the seven years. Now, the COVID year was thrown in there, but nonetheless, twice in seven years, totally missing the postseason in general. And, yeah, I mean, I know I touched on it 2 seconds ago, but it really did feel like it was time. You know, seven years is a good, long marriage when it comes to professional sports or, well, now it's professional, but excuse me, sports period. Right? That's a long time. That's a good sample size here. And again, you just never saw anything that made you say, yes, he's the guy. There was not this deep Omaha run. Yes, you got supers a couple of times. But even the way Kingston seemingly interacted with the community and maybe the lack of interaction with some of the other coaches on campus, you never really saw him at some of the other games.
[00:06:34] It was a little weird. And I think people got tired of him, and I don't even think he was really that well received to begin with. I mean, I had a lot of faith. I had a lot of hope. That's kind of my hopeless romantic death fault, whatever the phrase is, as a fan, right. The eternal optimist. But it just felt like it had run its course. And I think his approach to the game, his approach to the program, it just wore thin and you got the supers last year, probably saved his job, frankly. Last year had a disappointing regular season. This year especially, you know, in the conference play towards the end of the year, didn't make it out of the regional, had a chance. Right. You put yourself in a position to potentially play for that final spot, but you came up short yet again when it mattered the most. So now Gamecock nation, and more importantly, Gamecock Twitter, has the distinct pleasure to live for. The hot boards, the lists, the rumors, the sources, and the endless debate on a coaching search is incredible. I mean, and it really came at the perfect time, too, because on that professional sports side, there wasn't a whole lot going on. You know, the, the finals and the Stanley cup. We were sitting on our hands waiting for that to start. You got baseball going on, sure, but it was kind of hitting you like a ton of bricks that, man, we don't have Gamecock sports for quite some time here. Yeah, we can talk about the football countdown and all that jazz, but you're coming down off this high of intense postseason baseball. What are we going to talk about? Well, I'll tell you what we're going to talk about. Who the hell is going to replace Mark Kingston? So it really worked out well. But, you know, without boring y'all here with what could be a very long list of candidates and really with no way of proving if they actually are candidates, because you can read ten articles and you're going to get ten different lists. Like there's a common, a couple common folks candidates, but everyone has their own opinion about who should be the next coach at USC. So I'm going to share my thoughts with you, really, on what type of coach, what type of person I think South Carolina needs right now. And then I have some names at the end who I think have a legitimate shot. But again, my caveat here is I'm not an expert. I'm not trying to be. I've said that before, no sources. And the couple of guys that I have here at the end, it's just my personal thoughts about guys who I think have a legit shot. Not to say that it can't be anybody else here, but looking at the factors that I think will make a good coach, really the factors that South Carolina needs as their next head coach here, I think you have to have some sort of experience at the power five level.
[00:09:52] Now is not the time to bring in someone from a smaller level and expect that whatever success that they may or may not have there will translate to the SEC, which I just now realize is going to contradict my first candidate. But nonetheless, I think that's important. Right. I want to see sustained success.
[00:10:17] Gotta love that. Gotta love that realization in the moment here. People are gonna call me out on it, but that's okay. I called it on myself here. But, you know, having that experience, especially with all the changes coming to college football, man, I am just out of it today. College baseball, there we go. In terms of scholarships, nil, et cetera. This program needs someone who is already having conversations at a high level, but most importantly, like someone who is used to an increased level of competition and expectations.
[00:10:55] You know, now is not the time to take a chance, is what I'm trying to say.
[00:11:02] I know that there's a trendy name or two of people who are at a particularly smaller level of baseball, and they might be doing well at that level, and I see the arguments for that.
[00:11:19] But this program needs someone who has that experience, right? Who's a savvy veteran, who knows the game, who's been there, who's done that over a long period of time in some capacity at a very good program. In my opinion.
[00:11:40] If there was a time to gamble, maybe that was after the Holbrook situation, right?
[00:11:48] You went after Kingston. It didn't work out. You need someone who you really think can come in and take this job and run with it relatively quickly. But next, the next coach needs to be a strong recruiter because no matter what happens in the landscape of college athletics, that will be the foundation of any program. And I mean, this past cycle, I think the Gamecocks missed on a few portal targets in particular, and I think it showed on the field. So you have to have someone whos able to navigate that as well as the high school recruiting, someone whos done it at a high level again for a long time.
[00:12:26] The next coach also has to be someone who brings that fierce competitive edge. And you might sit there and think, well, yeah, any coach at a high level, that should be a given.
[00:12:43] That mentality has to be able to trickle down to the players, and you have to be able to articulate that as well. You have to be able to connect with the players and instill your mentality and how you approach the game and how you step up to the plate in the clutch moments when it matters.
[00:13:05] And I think that with Kingston, while he certainly knows the game of baseball inside and out, I don't think his teams always came to play with that intense fire, especially in some of those bigger moments. And it's not a knock on the players, right? It's a reflection of the leadership. So you have to be able to instill an intensity and an edge and a culture really is the word for that in your team.
[00:13:37] And so then the next trait, you know, somewhat of a given, but the next coach needs to be able to surround himself with a great staff. You know, when Ray Tanner was at his highest, he had some of the best assistants in the country.
[00:13:49] And this next coach needs to be able to sell himself as the next big thing or be able to come in and win games quickly to attract the best and the brightest that there is.
[00:14:06] And then not necessarily the last, but last on this list is understanding the standard of South Carolina baseball.
[00:14:16] Good is not good enough here, and I don't think Mark Kingston fully understood that. I think in his mind, he was doing a fine job. Got to the postseason more times than not, hung around in the SEC, but good is not good enough here.
[00:14:36] The next coach has to understand that the way this team performs on the field and interacts with the community and all that jazz year over year, needs to be towards the top of the SEC.
[00:14:50] And maybe it doesn't happen right away, but you need to see signs of consistently going that direction. It has been far too long since Carolina has been to Omaha. The next coach doesn't have to do it right away, but it needs to be in a timely manner. That has to be the goal with this next higher. And you can't just really throw hope into the air.
[00:15:17] But also, you know, I do think it's very important as a fan to keep in mind that when you go through a coaching search, you know, the goal is to hire the right person. And you're probably saying, like, what? Yeah, duh. But what I mean by that is, like, if you do that, you should have your coach for the next ten years at least.
[00:15:40] So with that said, you have to keep a head on your shoulders here. And when you see recruits or current players throwing out support to one potential candidate or another, like, that's all fine, but you have to hire the best man for the job, period. If you're able to retain talent, amazing. But if not, that happens with any coaching change, hire the person that you think will be the best man for the job in the short, medium, but also long term for this program.
[00:16:13] So with that said, really quick, here are three guys that I think have a good shot at being the next coach. And, you know, for those of y'all who have followed me along with my gambling picks and trying to predict what's going to happen in the future.
[00:16:30] There's a very, very, very great likelihood that the next coach is not even on this list because that's just my track record. But first, and this is the guy that goes against sort of that top quality that I, that I first mentioned there. But I'll try and like dance around that here. I think the top candidate for Ray is Cliff Godwin, who is the current head coach at ECU. So I know that it might not be power five experience, but he's a sitting head coach with a very long track record of success. So to me, you can sort of substitute that, right? Because outside of the COVID year, he only missed the postseason once in ten years at ECU. He has been to the super regionals four times and came painfully close to getting to Supers this year. So he was tantalizingly close to half the time being to the Supers. ECU is one of the more consistent programs in the AAC, finishing first four years in a row. And I actually think they finished first before the COVID year as well.
[00:17:41] He's just a baseball guy. He's a baseball guy that knows how to win. He knows how to develop college players, and he's done it for a long time. And to me, I think that is an important quality. Sitting head coach doing it for a long time, that ticks a lot of boxes.
[00:17:58] However, anytime you read about this guy, it seems that he is very happy at ECU. He's determined to get them to Omaha and it seems like when you read about him, if he were to leave for another job, it would really be preferred that it be his alma mater, Ole Miss. So I think maybe it might be a little bit of a long shot. But who knows, maybe the time is right. You've been at the place ten years.
[00:18:27] The landscape of college athletics is changing.
[00:18:31] Maybe it's time to jump ship to a, to a big dog. So we'll see next Josh Y. Lander, who is the associate head coach and recruiting coordinator for Tennessee. Now, he's been at Tennessee since 2018 as an assistant coach in the recruiting realm as well, he is a fast riser in the coaching ranks. I understand some may have hesitancy since he's not a sitting head coach, and it certainly is a risk. However, he has helped put together a team that has been very, very good in the SEC over these last few seasons. So you might be able to get a guy before he is on everyone's radar in like a year or two.
[00:19:16] And if we can come close to replicating what they have going on at Tennessee. That would certainly be playing at a level consistent with that South Carolina standard. And he's a guy that is rubbing shoulders with a very good coach in the SEC as EC, right? Game planning, talking with the guys. Here's how we're going to approach this series, approach this picture. So he knows the pressure and the challenges that come with the SEC in particular.
[00:19:47] So I think with his candidacy, you could maybe look around not being a head coach.
[00:19:53] Everyone gets that first job. It's a big first job potentially for him, but the resume is there.
[00:20:02] Then.
[00:20:03] Probably the most polarizing candidate here is Monte Lee.
[00:20:08] Monte, of course, has been on staff at South Carolina for the last two seasons. He previously was on staff at South Carolina from zero three to zero eight.
[00:20:17] Now, between his two stints as head coach at different schools, he has a total record of 518 and 281. I did the math aka looked at Wikipedia and that is a 648 winning percentage overall.
[00:20:34] Most people will of course remember him for his time at Clemson, where he was ultimately fired for missing regionals two years in a row and never making a super and this is the candidate that has everyone riled up and ready to debate. Because on one hand, you have a coach who did not have postseason success that South Carolina demands, and he had plenty of chances to do so again at that power five level, and he did not.
[00:21:05] So the argument is that you know what you'd be getting, and based on his resume, you're signing up for basically a similar level of success to what just got Mark Kingston fired. So it's sort of like deja vu all over again, potentially.
[00:21:25] On the other hand, he is a good recruiter. He knows the region incredibly well, he knows the current roster and also the prospects for this program incredibly well.
[00:21:37] And he at least really understands that standard of South Carolina baseball because he lived it.
[00:21:45] And while I think Gamecock fans were happy to welcome Monty back a couple years ago, especially after seemingly having that instant impact last year, I know there is a big hesitancy among fans to give him the keys just because he's a Carolina guy.
[00:22:04] But it is funny, though, because when he came back to staff, people were really excited, people were stoked, and the team played well last year and a lot of that success, especially early on in the year, people attributed to Monty and the approach that he brought to the game at the plate, things like that. I remember seeing people saying, just get rid of Kingston and promote Monty right now. This was last year, so it's funny how things change. You know, you have a little more time to think about it. You see what else is out there and you say, maybe he's not the guy, but I think with Monty, he would have to find a way to bring in elite coaches around him to calm some nerves with this team.
[00:22:46] I was kind of alluding to him. You could probably read between the lines earlier, but Landon Powell is a guy that a lot of people were excited about at the idea of him potentially coming to South Carolina. He's just at too small of a level right now to make that jump.
[00:23:01] But what if there's a scenario that he comes on staff and then really gets that elite experience?
[00:23:09] Very interesting idea, but I don't think you run a risk of a big drop off in the short term with Monty. But again, based on the evidence with him as a head coach, you do have real cause for concern as to whether he is the man for the job to bring South Carolina back to Omaha simply because he hasn't even come close to it.
[00:23:34] But at the same time, you know, he's been around.
[00:23:39] He knows the ins and outs of the programs. He knows the ins and outs of the athletic department. There's obviously connection there. He's a legitimate candidate for the job.
[00:23:47] I also fear that the coaching candidate list for Ray Tanner is shrinking quickly, maybe against his will.
[00:23:57] Guys like Godwin saying, no, I'm staying put.
[00:24:01] Maybe some other guys at other schools have too big of a buyout.
[00:24:07] And while Monty does deserve a fair shot at this, at least from where I'm sitting, it might feel like it's starting to trend towards him almost by default.
[00:24:18] Unless Ray can do some serious convincing otherwise, or you give an assistant coach a shot like a guy like Josh Alander, I don't know. We'll see how it goes. I expect this to be sorted out in the next week or so, so hopefully soon. And until then it's all speculation. But when it happens, we'll have even more to talk about. As a reminder, summer schedule for the podcast, Fridays only until we get closer to football. And with that, that wraps up this episode. Please follow me on social media, Twitter or X is Cox Gamecocks. Instagram is just the name of the show, Cox talking Gamecocks. And please, like, subscribe and review the podcast. I appreciate all y'all go Cox.
